Defining Hospitality

DH - Matt Ferebee
===

[00:00:00]

Dan Ryan: Today's guest is a pioneer in weaving brand narrative into the DNA of Luxury Properties.

He's a trusted partner who's worked for the Ritz Carlton Bale Resorts Relay and Chateau JW Marriott, and has been the agency of record for the stunning Blackberry Farm for over 18 years. He's the co-founder and chief creative officer of Farabee Lane and award-winning brand strategy and creative agency recognized for excellence in hospitality and luxury branding.

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome Matt Farby. Welcome Matt.

Matt Ferebee: thank you, Dan. Uh, very kind, uh, setup.

Dan Ryan: Well, the, the setup is all like, you're this overnight success after, you know, 20 plus year, 20 years of all this hard work. Right?

Matt Ferebee: That's all right. That's all right. And that's only counting for every lane. But yeah. Um, my, my sons will roll their eyes when I say it takes a lot of hard work to be an overnight success, but yeah.

Dan Ryan: It does take a lot of hard, that's also like luck, right? I, it was like Thomas Jefferson or Thomas Edison one. [00:01:00] Thomas Thomas Edison or Jefferson said, you know, it's funny, the, uh, the lucky, the harder I work, the luckier I become.

Matt Ferebee: Right. That's brilliant. No,

Dan Ryan: Right?

Matt Ferebee: You make your own luck

Dan Ryan: Totally.

Matt Ferebee: You work hard making your own luck.

Dan Ryan: Yes. So you've been grinding away in the branding, luxury branding world.

Um, a lot of hospitality work under your belt, and this has come up in conversations. I, I've spoken to a couple other branding companies and principles of branding companies, and one of the things that I've noticed in my. Career timeline. I was trying to think of a creative way to say like my, as I become gray, but whatever.

Matt Ferebee: I don't have that problem.

Dan Ryan: yes, it's all gone. For those of you not watching, he's a nice, beautiful, shiny head. branding agencies as like, I'm a little far, far down the food chain from you. You're at a very beginning part of a project setting the brand pillars, setting a direction when done correctly, and this is what I loved and I had never really [00:02:00] considered this, but it's almost like what I love about companies that have really clear and defined values that are spoken about all the time.

You said that if brand is done well, it becomes this incredible and very precise decision making tool.

Matt Ferebee: Hmm.

Dan Ryan: Right. So oftentimes I'm a couple layers down 'cause you'll do the branding, a design firm. Architect architecture firm will work on like the built environment, but under the umbrella or of what your, your brand guidelines are or that decision making tool.

By the time it gets to me doing the furniture, the projects that seem to be the easiest are the ones that have brought on a branding company at the beginning to really think about the brand and establish values. And, and I don't even have the words for it, but just a lexicon.

Matt Ferebee: Hmm.

Dan Ryan: Um, and I love how you've positioned it as if done well.

It is a decision making tool because then it just has to be super [00:03:00] clear. So I'm gonna tee you up that way, but as that pertains to hospitality, what does hospitality mean to you and how have you found this path for branding into hospitality?

Matt Ferebee: okay, so I'll define hospitality first.

Dan Ryan: Perfect. I.

Matt Ferebee: I, I think it's. Looking back on it, I'm 50, uh, and I've, you said 20 years in this, it's probably been, you know, 30 genuinely in, in the world of advertising and marketing and placemaking and things of that nature. I, I look back on how it, how much of that started.

I was raised in the south, um, sweet mom, uh, an episcopal priest of a dad. And so hospitality meant in a very simple and applied way, uh, taking care of other people. I knew that growing up, that that's what you have to be hospitable. That's, that's part of who we are as southerners. That's part of who we're called to be like, at your best, you're taking care of other people. Um, as I grew up and, and businessed up in my sort [00:04:00] of understanding of that, I, I began to hear things. I'm like, oh, hospitality is also a, a name of an industry. Hospitality means hotels. It's shorthand for resorts

Dan Ryan: Hmm.

Matt Ferebee: And destinations and room nights and And in that arc, I, I've. Only now can look back and say it, it lost a lot of the humanity.

That was part of my earliest understanding of that word and that idea. And so only in the last maybe 10, 15 years, uh, 20, if I go back, what Blackberry Farm reintroduced me to was No, no, no. Real hospitality is still real hospitality. Um, the things that Will Guera talks about now is still, he's just peeling back the truth of what hospitality is. It's not that there's a radical newness to going out of your way to take care of somebody. That's, that's what hospitality is. If you have a good friend who likes Peanut butter cups, you go to the store before they come to your house and you put 'em in the fridge for 'em 'cause they're better than the fridge. Um, [00:05:00] that to me is like the, the, the e my evolution in it was to say, okay, so that's really the, the understanding of hospitality was this, oh, it's what good people do, to be nice to other people. and what I've realized now as I sort of coach a lot of. hospitality executives and hospitality teams, and where that word gets kicked around as if it's the sterile, um, industry category, category name. Um, what I ask them and have found myself just instinctively saying it, is when they say, well, we do this and we do that, um, we do, we have a welcome drink. It's part of how we demonstrate our, um, hospitable graciousness. Uh, we sabre a bottle of champagne nightly. it's a ritual. People love it. Um, but when they describe it, they often finish the sentence with, know, we do this, we, we do a nightly ritual.

We'll, Saab bring a thing. And if you just add four after that, you, you find often the shortcoming because they're just saying, well, we do this welcome drink. Okay, well, for whom? and [00:06:00] hospitality requires both sides of that. That's if I think back to kind of how I was raised is that no one would've said, I'm real hospitable if nobody was coming over, or if you weren't hosting anybody, you have to be in a position of action to take care of other people to really demonstrate what hospitality is.

And so I'll, I'll very long-winded, um, set up on that term, but like when I realized that the two were not incompatible, the, the earliest, my, my earliest understanding of hospitality, taking care of other people, being nice, being gracious, um, and the industry idea of hospitality, when you start to mash those together, what you get, I think is this reawakening lately of people saying, oh, the essence of hospitality as an industry is taking care of other people. Yeah. Everything else is just a functional circumstance of we have rooms, we have keys, we have beds, we have sheets, um, but our goal here is to take care of people and, and our ratings and our loyalty and our rate. all connected to how well we take care of other people, which is functionally the, the heart of hospitality.

So that, that to me is sort of my long journey, um, from understanding hospitality, not in a [00:07:00] context of hotels and resorts. Um, now in its in that space. You know, I think that they live together really nicely and I think that's given us some traction in talking to executives and others in the space, is how do you take care of people in the context of a world class resort in the context of Aland Chateau, um, experience. And I think if you just point it back to that humanity, it, it really doesn't fail you.

Dan Ryan: Thank you for sharing that. And then as you were saying that I, I started, I've really come to think and. Feel what hospitality is and when it, when it, when it's done well. And to me, if I have an image, it's this idea of a hearth or a lamplight where, I love how you said it's on both sides, right?

Because in that hearth or lamplight, there's people on both sides of that, whether having a conversation, just being, just getting warm eating. And I think it's that feeling that is like the center of the Venn diagrams of all those, whats as you [00:08:00] said, right? It's that little center kernel. Um, I'm, I've never been to Blackberry Farm.

I am, I've heard incredible things about it. I've had the opportunity to go there a couple times, but the schedule, my schedules just haven't worked. And to me, I feel like within the hospitality industry, that Blackberry Farm is probably an exception rather than the rule. Of incredible hospitality. And I might be out a little bit over my skis here because I feel just in what I've heard about them, having not experienced that, it was a real passion project where it's on this immense amount of acreage.

And it was almost like my favorite, one of my favorite movies is Field of Dreams, where if you build it, they will come. Right? I don't think, and I could be wrong here, but from the, the anecdotes that I've heard, they built this thing, and I don't even know specifically who the they are, so maybe you could fill this in, but they built this thing [00:09:00] with a sense of pa uh, passion and purpose, not necessarily a p and l, which is really surprising to me from things I've heard and my understanding, but it's turned into this incredible execution of aspirational hospitality.

I don't know really anyone who's had a, a bad experience at Blackberry Farm, and everyone I hear about that stays there, comes out of it. A raving fan, which to me means like an excellence in not just vision and passion and purpose, but also execution.

Matt Ferebee: Mm-hmm.

Dan Ryan: Am I right or wrong in there?

Matt Ferebee: totally right. Um, I, I'll call out a few little things. Let's put a pin

Dan Ryan: Correct me.

Matt Ferebee: No, let's put a pin in the p and l for a second. 'cause I think that's, there's an interesting component of that. I also think, um, there's something to be said for the fact that things do go wrong at library farm, right?

Dan Ryan: Hmm.

Matt Ferebee: Genuine hospitality is the saving grace in the midst of things going wrong. They, they, they fix things that go wrong. Um, they minimize [00:10:00] those that can go wrong, but they fix them with grace and with such, um, magnificence that people actually come out on the other side of it, loving them more. Um, so I, I'll, I'll rewind a bit to say about the family.

It's the Bell family, um, remarkable story. Like just, uh, think they are not, um, independent of a p and l logic and of a, a performance and success logic. What they are is they prioritize guest experience and epic, exceptional hospitality over everything. And they firmly believe. That, that will guide them.

That is, that is their compass. That is their, um, their focus and, and they have no interest in value engineering themselves into a better rate, into a, um, an okay, um, version of themselves, knowing that they, they strive so far above that, they could back it down just a little bit and, and charge a little less or whatever, make a little more, they have no interest in that.

It's, it is a full tilt commitment to creating an exceptional experience of [00:11:00] phenomenal, and I'll say American, and I don't mean this in any sort of, um, exceptional way about what it means to deliver an American luxury experience, but what they set out to do was let's create this, um, this country estate, uh, of the likes that only some Americans once knew. Um, you look at Biltmore House, you look at Shelburn Farms, you look at these grand Estates, um, created by these captains of industry who hosted their friends, who, um, who gave them run of the place. Uh, I think Chris and Sandy Bell, um, said something similar. What if, what if we created a space like that? And that was when we first began working with them now, 18, 19 years ago, was to begin articulating that, that this is, um, a great American country estate.

and so, you know, our work with them early on was to articulate that and what it was, it was clear to us that what they were offering was this magical experience for guests where you could come and you could, um, you could experience this sort of classic country state, and you see this in Europe.

[00:12:00] Um, you know, these estate properties now that are having a wave of, um, enthusiasm for, you know, hotel experiences on them. Um, but what Blackberry was doing was sort of similar to that with, uh. Suite charming cottages and exceptional service and support. They weren't trying to create a resort or a hotel as much as, um, they used those as the business function. Um, the methodology for hosting people. But the experience on property was more like, Hey, what if we assumed that we liked everybody who came and stayed with us? We liked them like they were our friends and family, and we hosted them in that way. What if that was the assumption? not that they were paying us to come stay in our hotel, but instead that what if we just have a lot of friends and we wanna host them here?

And that's, that's the magic. Like when you talk about people who are rave raving fans of Blackberry, it's because they've gone and they felt that. And when they can't put their finger on it, they're like, is there some genetic quo kind of thing With Blackberry, it's that when you're there, you feel like the Bell family, they must know you. Like there must be [00:13:00] somebody behind the scenes that knows you and is taking care of you because the, the, the service is so thoughtful and so generous. know what, what better describes great hospitality, the kind that I mentioned earlier.

Dan Ryan: But it's not like, it's not like they create this like MI six dossier on every guest coming in. Right. So how, how, like, how can they know so well?

Matt Ferebee: Well,

and it's, I guess it's interesting you say that because I don't think it, if we think about that from a real hospitality perspective, it doesn't require a whole lot other than training your staff to be attentive. And if that is the first thing, imagine how much you can learn if your effort is not to see how quickly you can execute a pre-arrival customer service call, right?

That how many hotels are like, we gotta be in and out in a minute. If instead, your ambition is, how can you engage somebody ask them if they want to engage via email or phone? And begin at that point asking them what matters [00:14:00] to them? Why are they coming? What are they looking for? What do they like to eat? And if you take that logic forward, all of a sudden all the decisions. Um, all the interactions with everybody, with the charming folks who are taking your luggage to the cottage, the room. Um, everybody is listening carefully, not because they're MI six and it's creepy, but because their goal, every single one of them that you have a magnificent stay.

That you have an exceptional experience. And I think that's, that's a culture thing, um, that isn't coming from a place of how can we do hoteling best in class? And instead it's how can we do hospitality at scale versus how can we do hotel a familiar family way? They flip it

Dan Ryan: I love that idea of asking, you know, in doing custom furniture, we have this kickoff call with all the stakeholders, and one of the things that we have there is, Hey, you know, we sent out a weekly project update. Normally we send it on a Friday. Is there a day that works better for you? [00:15:00] How do you like to be communicated with?

I love that like phone or email, like I'm a phone guy, but most people, some people are like, oh, text me. Um, but being able to ask that one question, they're like, oh, well, you know, our, our bigger project meetings are on this day, so if we can get it the day, but it just changes the whole tenor. You're like a receiver of of the need.

Matt Ferebee: And, and

Dan Ryan: Um,

Matt Ferebee: hospitality too, that people are gonna

Dan Ryan: yeah.

Matt Ferebee: they

want,

Dan Ryan: It's about making room for it. Huh?

Matt Ferebee: And intention And focus. And I think the, from the very beginning, Chris Bell, um, as the earliest proprietor and the story gets bittersweet, Sam Bell, her son, um, stepped up to the role of proprietor young, um, and passed away young, uh, doing it in a tragic ski accident. And so we've been there along that and watched, but we, what we watched was the transferability of those skills and that mindset.

So it was clear that it was not that Chris Bell was this. Phenomenal host. She is. She was then in that role, but she transferred that effectively to Sam. It's been transferred to the entire team. Mary Celeste, Sam's [00:16:00] widow is now at the helm it and

Dan Ryan: Okay, so that's Okay. So that's really interesting on how it's been transferred because I know all, for many of us entrepreneurs or even, um, people who are starting out in our careers or in the middle of our careers who are reporting to someone and have to learn from that person or client who we report to.

One of the things, and, and you said this earlier as far as coaching executives in hospitality, so I'm curious about that. Is that cur, is that coaching the executives in hospitality as far as trying to deliver your deliverable so that you're clear on what they want? Or is that a separate. Business of yours where you're coaching people, number one, nu number two, oftentimes there's this institutional knowledge that gets stuck between someone's ears, and it's hard for the people that are trying to execute to get that out, whether it's a brand essence, a brand pillar, [00:17:00] when they want their project updates sent.

Um, and we found that just communicating and doing huddles that are values oriented, so adapt and improve. We say what it means. We do what it's, we say what we mean, and we do what we say. We're tenacious, we, you know, we're organized. We those help because those are the, the, the value pillars. But how do you find that?

In the case of Blackberry Par Farm, they were able to get that institutional knowledge or feeling out of their heads and into everyone so that that legacy could be continued.

Matt Ferebee: a good question. Uh, I, I, I would say a couple things. One, they are that in their minds, I sense it's an organic. Uh, foundation of of principles because it does evolve and change depending on who's saying it. I think, um, doesn't change is the the aim, the goal,

Dan Ryan: Hmm.

Matt Ferebee: always, remarkable hospitality, [00:18:00] creating people who, creating fans who rave about the, the level of service and the, um, the intimate nature of, uh, how you're taken care of in

Dan Ryan: Hmm.

Matt Ferebee: that.

And so

I, I, have to credit at least some of the awkward nature of the. Experience of property itself, it's, it spans not only acreage, as you mentioned, um, it's multiple units and, structures and,

Dan Ryan: Yeah.

Matt Ferebee: house, um, you've got cottages down a hill, you've got golf carts. Um, it's, it's magical, it's awkward.

It's, you know, it's to service it as a bear out, out of the gate. So what it requires is everybody immediately coming out of the rote mechanics of, well, there's an elevator bay, and this is where hospitality goes. And, you know, our commercial division does this and groups go here and this is, there, there is no chance of falling into a, a routine of normal, normal, same, same at Blackberry because you're walking up hills and it might be snowing and there could be a bear. Um, you never know, right?

Dan Ryan: Know about those.

Matt Ferebee: the, all [00:19:00] of those things require you to, as a, as a human with eyes, with hands, with feet to engage each other and say, how are we handling this? How are we dealing with this situation? And, you know, they, they've just been really deliberate in empowering their team. Um, and informing their team to say, this is how we do it and this is why we do it. And I, I think that that sort of, strong-willed commitment to say, make it the best. Uh, the, the phrase that Chris, um, kind of embedded in my brain early on, again, this is 20 years ago. Um, I, good, better, best, never let it rest till the good gets better and the better gets best.

And

Dan Ryan: Say that again because I'm writing it down. Good, better, best.

Matt Ferebee: never let it rest till the good gets better and the better gets best, like said in this sweet, thoughtful, and absolutely demanding way, Like, so you've now got the packaging for continuous improvement in the, in the, in the modern business vernacular. [00:20:00] It's continuous improvement, right? And

yet it's

packaged in this charming, genteel, southern way, but it is a hundred percent committed if last stay. Was a 98, this stay must be a hundred. If

Dan Ryan: oh my God.

Matt Ferebee: with an A, then they need an A plus.

Dan Ryan: you're, you're plucking my heartstrings here. Like that, that is such a deeper dive than adapt and improve. And it's set, set in a way that. Just conveys so much more, and I can only envision or hearing and seeing them say those words. It's almost like casting a spell.

Matt Ferebee: Oh,

Dan Ryan: Right?

Matt Ferebee: can you imagine the fact that, uh, 20 years on, I can, I can repeat it to you, and I've, you know, it's not like they preach it from every mountain, they live it, but I

Dan Ryan: Hmm.

Matt Ferebee: it because

it it

is so true. Um, I could look to those words and say that that's the secret sauce is that at every juncture they challenge themselves to improve. And so that, that, that's, to me, the, the pretty [00:21:00] crazy thing is that, um, they live it. They live those state, that statement.

Dan Ryan: Now hearing this kind of ties back into what I said in the, in kind of the in, in. After I read the, after I read the introduction for you and this, I shared with the audience this idea of when brand is done correctly, it becomes a decision making lens. Right. It's a, it's a circuit, if you will, right.

Matt Ferebee: Hmm.

Dan Ryan: You just know when it's done correctly.

So I hear you. Blackberry Farms started 20 years ago. You started 18 years ago. Your company,

Matt Ferebee: Well no Blackberry Blackberry's in its

Dan Ryan: oh, 50th.

Matt Ferebee: so we are, we'll, we'll be next year. So, yeah. We'll, um, we came into, uh, our relationship with the property started, um, they were well on their way, but they had maybe 20, uh, 24 at that point. And now they're, uh,

Dan Ryan: way.

Matt Ferebee: that, more than triple that with private homes. So, um, it's, you know, they, they were [00:22:00] shifting from, and, and it, it

Dan Ryan: Wow.

Matt Ferebee: unfair to say

hobby. It wasn't a hobby, it was an a deep passion. Um, but they, they, know, evolved that logic. Um, and we've been there for much of that ride. The, all of the acclaimed barn, wine tunnel, bramble Hall, all of that development, wellhouse, et cetera, much of which we contributed, um, and collaborated on with, with the humble spirit of how can we help

Dan Ryan: Hmm.

Matt Ferebee: And the how can we

help that question.

So a

lot of, a lot of, um, my thinking about this notion of coaching or this notion of supporting, um. Properties and using brand as a decision model. Decision, decision making model comes from being at the table with the Bell family, with their architectural partners like Keith, summer

Dan Ryan: Hmm.

Matt Ferebee: Um,

building a

depart,

you know, building partners and others. Being there for that and being the person who gets the chance to help articulate it in a way that will fortify everybody's decision making. Right? So, um, I, I remember [00:23:00] that for example with, um, both The Barn and, and then later with the Wellhouse, which is their spa, magnificent spa. Um, what we said was, it's a, it's a classic country estate.

It's a classic American, um, country estate. What sort of structure would make sense for a, a spot to be housed in? Um, and, and using the lens of, um, classic country American estate, what, what might that

Dan Ryan: So,

Matt Ferebee: And so

that's where

this wellhouse came in.

Dan Ryan: okay, so, 'cause I know we've been talking about Blackberry Farm a lot, and I, I think like, as an example within our industry, they're definitely in the top 1% as far as like hospitality experience. From what I've heard, I have not experienced, but just from the general zeitgeist, and that's my impression.

Um, I put like Amman up in there, four seasons up in there. Um, and of course in other brands there are individual properties that are probably up there, but [00:24:00] it, I think it all comes down to the team that's there, um, part. Like, if I'm hearing what you're saying of sitting at the table and hearing it, and this is kind of where I was going with the coaching and trying to get to this brand decision matrix or lens or circuit, um, would you say that you, your superpower, your firm's superpower would be to, to be, to get at that table, hear what's going on and then put it into some kind of a roadmap or a blueprint like I'm trying to under, because I don't know very much about brand.

I don't know very much about brand agencies. I've spoken to a couple I, when projects I'm working on with them. My thesis unproven is I think that those tend to run smoother because decisions are made. Like how would you describe your superpower in that sense?

Matt Ferebee: I [00:25:00] I

think,

Dan Ryan: Or am I right or did I just go out on a limb there?

Matt Ferebee: no, no, no, no. And I think, I

think what

Dan Ryan: I.

Matt Ferebee: and I.

think

your

hypothesis is accurate, by the way. Um, what, and I'll, I'll use only my experience to answer the question of superpower, whether it is or not, hopefully others can attest to and talk about. But, um, I, I do think the fact that we watch people bring us to subsequent projects early, if not first. Which to me says they are sensing that by having that North Star established with brand, um, that they are then able to use that as a lens, as a decision making model for whether the furniture should be 18th century reproduction, or should be American Shaker, or should be modern

eclectic

Dan Ryan: Hmm.

Matt Ferebee: because they know, at

the essence of the brand provides a framework to make that decision.

And, and I think what we've demonstrated is that it's not, it's not a magic power. Perhaps it's a [00:26:00] superpower, but it's not magic. Um, we listen carefully. We, we think about positioning not just as where can you fit in the market, but what does the market want and how can you deliver on that? and I, I think ultimately by establishing that in a really thoughtful and clear way, uh, what we're providing for people is a, a touchstone.

Dan Ryan: Hmm.

Matt Ferebee: they

can

say, and we've got a

project

in Portland, Maine right now. Um, really fun, exciting project. we had worked with some of the, the principals in that, um, on a different, uh, destination. And they brought us into this project early, uh, if not first, one of the first before the architects, anybody else. And what we argue was your opportunity right now is to establish, um, that lens before anybody gets in here and starts

drawing

Dan Ryan: Hmm.

Matt Ferebee: and starts thinking

about,

um, mod kind of furniture or chic or built-in or this or that, none of it. And before any of that. And so the, the idea that we surfaced there was [00:27:00] of the water.

It is a property that is on the water. And so we were talking about waterfront and this and that, and we pushed back and said that we think that there is something essential to this place where the spirit of the water is infused in every decision that we make. And if we can establish that and harness that, then everybody who comes on has something to say, alright, does what, does what I'm delivering?

I'm not, I'm not dictating what a wonderful architecture firm like Marvel. Does, but I am helping set, um, some conceptual frame around what those who are stakeholders in the project have said is important. the, the, the wise and talented folks, um, can take that at Marvel and anywhere else and say this, what this might mean then in architecture is this.

And so it's, um, it's exciting to be, uh, at the front end with the brand. I think what I have done over the years is, um, occasionally had to apologize for that or navigate the awkwardness where you've got an interior design group or a, an architectural group saying, wait a [00:28:00] second, why is an advertising guy, um, up in my business about furniture, two things.

I was raised in Hickory, North Carolina, and I love furniture. Um, so I do talk about furniture a lot, but I talk about it often because it should align with the

spirit and

Dan Ryan: Yeah.

Matt Ferebee: place and the

brand

is the thing. And so for you, I'm guessing those times where you're like, wow, this is really harmonic.

Like, I get it. They, they know what they want. When I come to ask them about what kind of furniture we could together, they have this real through line in what they're asking for, what, what, it doesn't require me to have created

that through

Dan Ryan: Yeah.

Matt Ferebee: They've

organically set what will then be, um, the

spirit of the brand, right?

And it just, what we have

found is that in those cases where we can help on the front end to tease that out and, and begin laying that foundation, everybody typically benefits. Now it's hard for some people who want to have, um, free reign over abstract expression. And abstract expression is often in a modern sense, lovely for [00:29:00] architecture and everything else.

But when it comes to everyone being on the same page, the brand we find, um, is super, super useful and, and incredibly valuable at that front end. And then the collaborators like at Marvel are by the end of it, are like, huh, that that was really valuable. And we get pulled into

projects with

them

Dan Ryan: Totally.

Matt Ferebee: others, uh, because they

see the value typically.

But that's, that's us as journalists, if you will, hearing and listening and reflecting.

Dan Ryan: Hmm.

Matt Ferebee: conjures. Um, I, I live in a world of plenty of conjures. Um, but our work typically on that front end is, is to be, you know, present and listen and match that to desire in the market.

Dan Ryan: Well,

Matt Ferebee: that to precedent.

Dan Ryan: I love the conjurer because let's just say good, better, best, never let it rest. Right? That I said was a spell Right,

Maybe that's been there for 50 years and, and that got them to a place when they were smaller to execute really, really well. Maybe is it that bringing in a [00:30:00] branding agency is good at hearing that, experiencing that, and then tapping into what the expansion plans are.

I'm, and I'm, I'm trying to shift beyond Blackberry Farm here, but it's like you, you have to like distill down the essence of that co of that spell, but then turn it into a playbook, a roadmap that, like, that it becomes a decision making tool for, for expansion. It has to be reevaluated. So, and, and that kind of ties back to frustrations that people have potentially with clients, potentially with their bosses, potentially with other stakeholders that, how do I get that?

How do I turn that spell? Because they're successful, they know what they're doing into like. Something that I know I can execute on. Right. So if you think about your process of sitting at the table and hearing the spells

talking, like how do you question like what's your process on questioning an existing experience or business to [00:31:00] distilling it down and then kind of creating this brand framework.

Matt Ferebee: it, it's funny, as you were talking, I heard two things. One, about, um, the magic and ma Making

it practic.

Dan Ryan: Mm-hmm.

Matt Ferebee: Making it, um,

scalable,

which I think

is, is something that

we do

quite a

bit of.

Dan Ryan: And not scalable for the sake of like ultimate scale and growth and behemoth. It's just like repeatable.

Matt Ferebee: Right, right, right. But,

Dan Ryan: Yes.

Yeah.

Matt Ferebee: doing it versus one and next year, 10 new

Dan Ryan: I.

Matt Ferebee: it.

Um, and not

living between the ears of one person for sure. Um, funny enough, my dad, um, one of the reasons I know that this translation of what would often be referred to as magic as spells as um, is, is watching my dad take, um, these spiritual ideas and recognize that he is not the reason people come to church.

Um, in his mind, this is not about his personality, people who would defend him. And he is like, it's not about that. It's about me equipping all of you. Um, and you all holding each other accountable. And I think in that one move, you take [00:32:00] the, the what would be magic ascribed to one person. Um, uh. Uh, decision making for that one person.

We gotta find that one person to get this decision made. I mean, how debilitating And you then, um, spread it to a, a community of people. I think I watched it in that environment with my dad, but I also watched it now at Blackberry, where you see a whole bunch of people on fire to deliver world class experiences, um, and, and trained up in how to do that and given permission and empowered to do that. Um, so our work often is to articulate those things. Um, what does that look like? What kind of rubrics can we create? Um, what kind of breakdown? So we, we often will, um, do exercises in brand operationalization where we say, which sounds real unsexy and, you know, real sterile that we're gonna operationalize this brand.

We do that, um, in an effort not to strip it of its magic, to create protocols and to create framework that ev new people, um. You know, people being [00:33:00] trained temporarily, people coming into the space, they, they have some way of locking into and connecting with, um, the essence of the place. And it's not like, oh, just if you're here for a couple years, you'll figure it out. Like, we don't have that, especially in this economy, in this, um, sort of context, we don't have that time to say, just jump in the boat and you'll figure out how to paddle. Like, how do we give somebody, you know, a logic for a way to get quick, um, quick onboarding that world? I think there is an inverse of everything I just said. Taking magic out of the heart and head of one person and spreading it out to a bunch of people. is taking the big idea of a flag like the Ritz Carlton and giving it heart magic for the people on the ground in some special place. You know? So in that sense, it's not like the Ritz Carlton's heartless, but the Ritz Carlton is an international global phenomenon.

It's a massive brand. So when we work with Bacarra out in Santa Barbara. They're charge to us, which is a wonderful [00:34:00] challenge to, to be asked to be a part of is how do you make it to Ritz Carlton Real for this place, Bacara, for Santa Barbara, for this coast. How do you make the idea of ladies and

Dan Ryan: Hmm.

Matt Ferebee: serving ladies and

gentlemen

real and exciting and magical for all of these hardworking people here who seasonally may work in vineyards and then work with us in the winter, who seasonally come and go, like they need to be able to train up in this.

And it can't just be, oh, do the Ritz Carlton thing. It's gotta be, make the Ritz Carlton thing magic here in this place for these guests. And I, so I think it's, it's

interesting that we, uh, play in both

scenarios.

Dan Ryan: So now I want to, I want to dig into that one because every Ritz Carlton employee apparently has a credo, like a, a card, a little foldout card

Matt Ferebee: What,

Dan Ryan: has the credo.

Matt Ferebee: whatever do

Dan Ryan: exactly.

There you go.

So to me and my mother-in-law, having worked at a Ritz Carlton, and she is a lady serving ladies, [00:35:00] ladies and gentlemen, serving ladies and gentlemen, and everyone that I met whenever I've been there, um.

You do get that feeling. But that credo is pretty awesome. It's got the values, it's got the credo, it's got like, this is what Ritz Carlton is. So how do you take that, like you are walking into Bacara, they have that already.

How do you add to that? Like

Is it an add-on? Is it

another fold in that thing?

like,

Matt Ferebee: try

Dan Ryan: yeah,

Matt Ferebee: give it, um,

Dan Ryan: I.

Matt Ferebee: great. So, um, first and foremost, I guess hippocratic, in the sense, first do no damage to that magnificent credo logic, right? Like it's, it is strong, it makes sense, it has served them well. Um, but what a shame if that sits on a shelf. for a local market and a specific guest experience. Um, it is a very different thing. We work with Turtle Bay, um, in Hawaii, and um, they are recently re flagged as a Ritz Carlton, um, [00:36:00] beautiful property on a prominent point. Um, and the, the idea that you would translate the same logic, of the Ritz Carlton in New York to the Ritz Carlton Turtle Bay. So now that credo and logic fundamentally in the heart needs to resonate in the same way we are, take ladies and gentlemen, taking care of ladies and gentlemen, but the expression of it, the, the articulation of it, the experience and engagement on the ground in the place.

So our work really is to take that, honor the, the core story of the Ritz Carlton and make sense of it for a local market. How do we link that to. Um, you know, this space, this place, the context, the people, the food, um, how do the, the food ways, um, weave into this? How does, how does travel and relationship to, um, birdwatching or people watching or, you know, all the different things that may come with an urban expression of that versus a rural expression or ocean expression.

And so, um, that's really the charge [00:37:00] that we're given is make this real for our people. Um, and I think that what we've tried to do too is demonstrate our deep respect for the parent brand. Um, we're not coming in looking to disrupt that or, um, in any way displace it. We're looking to actually make it more real in the moment for the place, for the people in that place. And that's, and and we've gotten a lot of traction with that. And I think what we, we come to it with a real, I think, um, genuine interest in bringing all the cool things and, and smart, um, language and principles that are on those little pocket cards. Um, and just like an eager, you know, new employee who says, how can I make this real? How can I do something with this? In every interaction with a guest, we say the same kind of stuff. We do it with a little more framework, um, and training to say, Hey, when we talk about this, let's make sure we're mindful of the fact that, um, they're indigenous peoples here and, and they are, um, allies to us in, in creating a unforgettable guest experience. And you wouldn't necessarily say that in the middle of, uh, Manhattan, although [00:38:00] Manhattan perhaps. Um, you could. Uh, but you know, the, all of those things relate. And so our work is to be students of that. We talk a lot about being students. Um, that's a humility that we bring to it. It's also an excuse

to say, I don't know,

like

I, I don't know the

Hawaiian culture enough to

know

Dan Ryan: So,

so as you do your research and you're in that, you're at the table, you're listening, you're taking it all in, like you, there's this card that's there and the card is way more than just the card because obviously there's a language and lexicon and communication and rhythm amongst the staff that has to be scaled out and rolled out.

But how, how, in the case of Turtle Bay or Bacard, you choose, they have the card, you're listening 'cause they want to make it more bespoke or. I don't know, just more unique to that property. They're still having the card, but what's the, what's your deliverable to them and how, like how have they raved about you since you've done your work?

Matt Ferebee: I'm trying to recall, uh, s some of the [00:39:00] post engagement feedback, uh, with Bacard. We had a great experience with them a couple months ago, um, culminating in a

pact auditorium

three

times in

one day. I

was

worn out by the

end of

it.

Dan Ryan: I.

Matt Ferebee: just kind of indoctrinating the team. And it's funny, that team was already very fluent in all things Ritz Carlton, uh, there.

The on the ground team has done a great job. What what had not been bridged into was the differentiating and, and defining principles of Bacara on that cliff overlooking the Pacific Ocean, where people knew by extension of the Ritz Carlton principles that, um, our relationship to wine country. Is such that we can be a base camp and we can coordinate your, your entry into that space.

They're not in the wine country, they're on the ocean, but they know that that's of interest for people. So our work from a brand perspective was to weave a story that would say in that particular sweep of, um, ocean front Um, [00:40:00] it's a, it's rich with agriculture and that's part of the history that Bacar celebrates. And so, you know, pulling that through as part of the guest experience that can be, you know, folded into culture and community, that is a key part of the Ritz Carlton experience. Um, you know, our, our work is to surface that and, and create those connections and, and spell out how team members are expected to host guests.

And we use a lot of that language like, you're, you, every one of you hosts, every guest. Um, so when you see them, you're supposed to be on alert, um, in, in order to help them have a great experience. That's, that's more of what I learned, that watching Blackberry where everybody's responsible for everything. And it makes complete sense because if you were hosting somebody at your house and if there was a cigarette butt, you know, along the sidewalk, um, a your parents might be pissed off. But, um, b uh, you know, if there, if there's something that needs to be cleaned up, you're reached out and you clean it up. It doesn't matter if that's not your job.

Everything's your job. You're hosting a guest in your home. It's that, that's hospitality, right? And so I think, you know, [00:41:00] reminding everybody of that and then, then expressing that further into things like, well, coordinating, uh, you know, a satellite trip out to some ven vineyards, that's part of the job now of everybody be aware of that.

Let's, what are the, what's the cheat sheet that says where this far from these things, these are the varietals that are grown near here. So a lot of our work is trying to, um, add additional, uh, validation to the, the key principles that are, that are intentionally broad. They have the Ritz-Carlton principles have to be broad enough to speak

anywhere in the

world and be true.

Our job is to

take

Dan Ryan: Mm. Okay.

Matt Ferebee: localize them, but then also, um, operationalize them. So make them real to the local space. Don't change 'em, 'em relevant to the local space, but then make them memorable to the team members and the guests who will experience them. And that's, that's the translation work that we do.

Often it's not invention as much as it's application. We take those, and that's, that's true of, um, the Ritz Carlton. It's true of, uh, the Vie Marriott [00:42:00] who we've worked with on, on several projects. Um, a lot of the independents we work with who don't have that sort of, um, strong backbone of credo and, um, belief system and, and things of that nature.

We, we bring a lot of that on the front end to the brand work. And then we do the same exercise. We apply it to the local place and to the, the circumstance to help guests get the best experience possible, to train team members to deliver

the best experience possible.

Dan Ryan: And then you also mentioned that, look, we and I, it resonated with me like we all love getting brought into projects as early as possible because then, then we can key in and really add value instead of like trying to change direction of an oil tanker after.

Right. So

what are some challenges that you've been experience or that you've experienced where you come in later than ideally you want with a new customer?

Give us an example of like how you've been at the table, listened and kind of helped nudge the ocean liner back. Right, because [00:43:00] once it, once it's

cut loose from the dock, it's hard to change direction. And I know we all want to get in earlier, but

how, how do you, how do you do that?

Matt Ferebee: yeah, and I, I, I will, I'll say too that it makes us disruptive at times. I that's, that's never a wonderful feeling like there, uh, at least not for me. There are plenty of people who love to come in and be a, um, quote disruptor, and they think that's fun. Um, you know, to, to come in and be a challenger to all norms.

Um, I like to challenge things that are not in our client's best interests, um, not in a guest's best interest. And, um, and so I'll use an example Canoe Place in Hampton Bays, uh, on the way out to the Hamptons. Um, we were brought in to reimagine the, the, um, in development web experience, um, and fine tune the brand because there was some, lack of love on the, the team's part. Uh, within the span of a [00:44:00] couple months, we ended up, um, getting audience to, and, and being asked to take over. We ultimately, the, the property was, we rebranded entirely. Um, the website was reconsidered entirely and we were given a seat at the table with regard to landscape, um, guest experience, guest flow, um, all of it.

And so, um, that's not to say that's always the case, that we always, you know, um, come in and find that room. Um, but it is with the, in the right circumstance. And I think the LERs on that project recognized that that's, that was what they had been struggling with, is there, there was no North Star. so once we started saying, are you this or that? And if this, then you should do, you know, this type of furniture, you should acquire this type of art, um, for the walls or whatever. Uh, I think they, every, everyone breathes a sigh of relief with that decision making model. Now, in some circumstances, there's another project, um, out west that, um, we were called in for only [00:45:00] one piece of it.

And we have to be judicious in that to not overstep and overcomplicate things because there, there has to be a level of respect. If there are budgets and timelines and um, should have would've coulda kind of thinking isn't what's right for the client in that moment. Um, our, our effort then is to say, while we might have done it differently, um, from this point forward, this is what we think the story wants to speak to the world.

This is how we think it could be done. And you know, I think, I think we've earned, um, some credibility with some of our colleagues in that moment where, um, we could have been more disruptive. We, we might've been, um, less respectful of the contributors, but often the evaluation is like, alright, at this stage they have to be live with this project in six months. Had we been brought in two years ago, it would've been phenomenal, but we weren't. So, um, and, and a lot of that that we then quickly lock into Josh and I talk about GXD, um, and try to put a face on what everybody describes as UX cx, um, on the [00:46:00] web, it's a user in the world, it's a consumer or a customer. Um, we really try to remind people, it's a guest. It's a guest, it's a human. Um, that, that guest, you, you are the host of that guest. So guest experience design gives a lens real fast. So if we come in and it is just way finding as we have, um, with a wonderful project, uh, in Arizona, um, that is our only job. We did not do the architecture. We did not do the interiors.

We did not impact those things. We don't actually do interiors, but no brand thought from us was applied we're we are inheriting, um, ideas from people at that point. What we are able to provide, um, is a clearheaded logic that would say, um, alright, given all of this, what's going to be best for the, the guest? Um, how do we make sense of that? How do we, how do we, and, and often our work is harder but possible. How do we stitch together the decisions that were made absent that North Star

with a narrative?

Dan Ryan: Hmm.

Matt Ferebee: that's not

just

bs, that's us trying to create connective tissue where there was none. [00:47:00] story has the power to do that.

Um, some would call it rationalizing it or whatever, but I honestly, I think that's part of the job we get paid to do is help us make sense of this thing. Um, maybe we got a little gun, maybe we got a little gungho and, and pull Dan in and started ordering furniture too early. what we will probably do is say, well, let's study the furniture. And if you liked it and approve it, I bet there's something in it that is germane to a conversation

about

brand.

Dan Ryan: Yeah.

Matt Ferebee: You, pick

these things

and

approve these things because you like these sleek lines. Let's, let's lean into that. Let's talk about, um, you know, the Neoclassical style. Let's talk about, uh, the bow arts and what might have led to that design decision because we can then pull that forward as a brand idea.

So a lot of what we do if we're not brought in early, um, we, we try not to be disruptive. We try to be, um, uh, a collective. Um, in our thinking so

that it benefits everybody's

effort

Dan Ryan: Mm.

Matt Ferebee: create

some sort of unifying

logic

for it.

Dan Ryan: Yeah. And then you can take, it's, it's like in the [00:48:00] news, right? People have these narratives, so that narrative's already there. The ship's already there, but then you can pull in all these other elements and bring them into the narrative. And I also find like oftentimes some of the coolest hotel experiences are where everyone is educated on the story of the hotel.

Like a bellman will say, oh, where this chandelier was made, or where this. Piece of art, or whose hand was in that photo of that piece of art. Um, it just kind of connects it and personalize it, personalizes it to me. Um, as you survey other branding agencies that are out there in, in our, in the hospitality world or otherwise, or other places, you know, and you've kind of made a, an imprint for yourself in the on, in luxury circles, but what do you think differentiates pH from the others?

Matt Ferebee: I think there are a couple different categories of

people, and I, a lot of great folks, a [00:49:00] lot of smart thinkers out there. Mm-hmm. I

think there are some practitioners who are fantastic at the, the, it nuts and bolts application of thoroughly considered branding. And so they are incredibly supportive of, um, execution and creating logic and structure and, um, order to both the development and workout of the brand.

Uh, and, and the ultimate guest experience. There are people on another end of, of the extreme who are poets and they create the most magical ideas. Um. that that are used for people to then bring to life as a guest experience. Um, and in that, often on that far, far end, you know, you may find the people who are at some points difficult because it's their way or it's not.

Um, and but, but it's magic, you know, when it works, it works really, really well. I think we live somewhere in between, is that, um, I think the [00:50:00] differentiator for us is that, uh, we work to create a, a fundamentally magical and memorable and, um, remarkable in the true sense of the word remarkable, that something people would talk about. Um, we, we work so hard to do that and then, um, we are very deliberate in our efforts to make that, to operationalize that. order that and sequence that in a way that's executable and practical and, and lays a foundation that can be leveraged for marketing and advertising, which we do too. Like I've talked a lot about, um, helping people pick the right pillows by way of a brand lens or something.

But, um, we do, we do plenty of paid media and marketing advertising stuff. So, um, and, and we benefit when we're able to lay that foundation that would say, this is the, this is what's true about this place. Um, this is why it

matters to these

people,

these guests.

Dan Ryan: Hmm.

Matt Ferebee: and

if we

can speak that really thoughtfully, and if I look at larger agencies who are doing, um, beautiful things with [00:51:00] big, big, um, destinations, I look at that and often admire the work. Um, what I know we are then brought in alongside people like that or behind people like that is to say, yeah, but it, what, what's the, there, there? And I think we, we often help people find the, there, there,

right? We're

gonna, we

help

pull out.

Dan Ryan: And that,

like as you were talking, I'm, I'm, I'm going back in my mind to, like you mentioned JW Marriott, you a, a few of those, Ritz Carlton, Blackberry Farm, right? All of these brands already had the, there, there, there was like a depth to their story right there,

right? And as they were either localizing it or looking to expand, you were able to sit at the table, hear what it was, kind of come up with a framework and a lens and a decision-making tool to help on that next step, as you look out there, is there, um.

A [00:52:00] company, an experience who has a depth to their story, but they might not know kind of what they're sitting on. That could be a dream client for you. Like if you were to manifest

somebody out there that you know, they're sitting on this depth of a story or the there is there and you wanna get involved and like help

create that lens for them.

Matt Ferebee: so one that I had, had, had an eye on, um, I think St. Regis was, um, woefully under utilizing its depth and character. Um, but just, you know, moments ago, a week ago they announced and showed a beautiful rebrand, and I can't recall who did it. It's lovely. Um, and it really begins to harness, um, the essence of, of that brand.

I think they're doing a great job. Um, I love, um, I think discovery is the, the sort of anchor idea, uh, at the heart of the rebrand, and really they leveraged that beautifully. And so I've, I've always kept an eye on them because I think they've [00:53:00] got such a richness to them and it didn't feel like it was fully capitalized and, um, and leveraged.

Uh, but I definitely see potential in what they're doing right now, so that's lovely. Um, they're. Uh, it's a, it's a great question. Um, there are a few, um, you know, we, we have a Grand Bohemian here, and I think that's a, it's a, it's an interesting brand that I watch, um, and, and it's flexible and it's got some, um, range to it. Uh, so that comes to mind. Um, I also look, we're doing more and more work in Europe, um, and so in and around the uk uh, some of the estate properties that I mentioned earlier, um, the pig is a fun one, and that it's just that these lovely, charming experiences that, um, I see potential in places like that. Uh, I also, of course, you know, the, the, we, most of our work is

at the property level for the

Ritz

Carlton.

And

so,

um,

the

more we get to

know

Dan Ryan: Hmm.

Matt Ferebee: brand and that team, um, the more I see and, and get excited about what we could do at the [00:54:00] brand level, um, nationally and internationally, that's, um, our, our world at Fairview Lane is not exclusive to hospitality. We do, um, quite a bit of it, but like, um, we've been the agency. Uh, behind much of the work for La Crue cookware in the United States and abroad, um, for almost, uh, 20 years. So

probably 17,

18,

um, of those, those,

years. And so

Dan Ryan: Hmm.

Matt Ferebee: you know, having watched, uh, our work with that brand starting here and then migrating to, um, their work in Europe and out to the world, um, it is, it's fun to see how, how a solid foundational idea can then translate in other places.

And so, um, without being over ambitious, that that's the, the notion of the Ritz Carlton and the friends we've made in that space. Um, that is certainly one that's top of a list, uh, with even bigger opportunity to unlock, um, the beauty of that credo. The beauty of ladies and gentlemen, serving ladies and gentlemen, um, we have we have some enthusiasm that we we certainly think,

um, could be top

down,

uh,

[00:55:00] valuable to

them.

Dan Ryan: And then I, I didn't realize that you were doing all that work with Li Cruze. Shame on me, but what about other, like a, a product that might be out there that is sitting on depth, but maybe just needs some help getting it out of their head and into a more scalable format, or looking at it differently or helping create that lens?

Is there

a dream

product?

Matt Ferebee: There are so many dream products. Um, there are two that, uh, come to mind, top of mind 'cause they, they actually sit on a list. Thermador, home appliances. Um, I love the product. I use the product. I have it in my house. This is the third time we've, um, done a, a Thermador suite in a house that we've redone. Um, it's, it's great product, uh, for those who love to cook. Um, we just launched a new small, uh, kitchen appliance brand called Lotus. Um, super Premium. It's lovely. We're really excited about it. It only, um. S you know, stirred that interest in Thermador more. Um, so we watch them [00:56:00] and just see what's coming up, you know, around with them. Um, so that's one. There's another in the world of golf, um, stitch is a, a golf brand that, um, and this is probably terrible to say, maybe I, um, be careful how I say it. I think

they they

Dan Ryan: Hmm.

Matt Ferebee: on great potential.

Um, and I

watch em,

I'm

like, huh.

Um, yeah, I just, the, the brand, there are those brands that for some reason they've caught your attention and you wanna just, you wanna mess with them just a little bit.

You wanna refine 'em just a little bit. And, and that's one that, um, every time I see 'em, so I, that, that may be one that

we go

Dan Ryan: Cool.

Matt Ferebee: business from. Um, but yeah, so those are those are a handful that, that stay, um, in and around the, the list

of

Dan Ryan: Um,

Matt Ferebee: to

Dan Ryan: as you look back over your decades of becoming an overnight success, um, as you look to the future, what's exciting you most about what you see out there?

Matt Ferebee: Uh, people are taking stories so seriously and I, that sounds actually pretty somber and, um, I don't mean it that way. We are getting audience with people [00:57:00] who are prioritizing their story of place. And man, that's exciting. Like to, to think that I was an English major, I taught English for a minute, uh, before going back to grad school and before launching into this industry. Um, and I, I would never have guessed that people would have the same appreciation for the power of story that, that I grew up, you know, thinking about. And, and so to be at the table to be part of the discussion, product development we've done, we launched a, collaboration with Disney, um, and look Cru say and developed a full Star Wars line, and we did the actual product dev. All based on clear, compelling story. And that same principle when it applies to placemaking and myth building. Um, all of that to me is like, I get really excited about that. And when I, um, my wife and I were just in the TWA, staying at a, a beautiful little country inn and the layers of details and [00:58:00] narrative attention to every aspect of the experience, that excites me because that tells me that in the midst of ai, in the midst of everything seemingly getting easier with regard to production execution, um, you know, it takes less human input to get more technical output. Um, I, I am heartened by the fact that there are still many, many people who want the tactile, who want the visceral, who want the heartfelt, and that's the essence. If I go back to your question earlier about hospitality, that's the essence of the

kind of

hospitality I was raised

on.

Be a

human

taking care of

another

human. Put something real in their hands, make them a cup of tea, um, look them in the eye. And at the end of the day, AI doesn't do that. Computers don't do that. And so, um, without being too cheesy, my kids would say it's corny. Um, Yeah I'm heartened by the fact and excited about, um, people's interest in story and, the creative ways that so many talented people are bringing those stories to life. [00:59:00] Like with furniture, I see. I, I've been in furniture for years and I see something

new

Dan Ryan: Hmm.

Matt Ferebee: I'm, I'm Marvel

that, that,

made

its way through

production. And I, I'm, I wanna know who designed it and like that, that sort of, um, electricity that you feel. That's what tells

me,

Dan Ryan: I,

Matt Ferebee: um, we're

not

Dan Ryan: I, wanna,

Matt Ferebee: And

all, all is not lost.

Dan Ryan: over your decades of becoming an overnight success, um, as you look to the future, what's exciting you most about what you see out there?

Matt Ferebee: Uh, people are taking stories so seriously and I, that sounds actually pretty somber and, um, I don't mean it that way. We are getting audience with people who are prioritizing their story of place. And man, that's exciting. Like to, to think that I was an English major, I taught English for a minute, uh, before going back to grad school and before launching into this industry. Um, and I, I would never have [01:00:00] guessed that people would have the same appreciation for the power of story that, that I grew up, you know, thinking about. And, and so to be at the table to be part of the discussion, product development we've done, we launched a, collaboration with Disney, um, and look Cru say and developed a full Star Wars line, and we did the actual product dev. All based on clear, compelling story. And that same principle when it applies to placemaking and myth building. Um, all of that to me is like, I get really excited about that. And when I, um, my wife and I were just in the TWA, staying at a, a beautiful little country inn and the layers of details and narrative attention to every aspect of the experience, that excites me because that tells me that in the midst of ai, in the midst of everything seemingly getting easier with regard to production execution, um, you know, it takes less human input to get more technical output. [01:01:00] Um, I, I am heartened by the fact that there are still many, many people who want the tactile, who want the visceral, who want the heartfelt, and that's the essence. If I go back to your question earlier about hospitality, that's the essence of the

kind of

hospitality I was raised

on.

Be a

human

taking care of

another

human. Put something real in their hands, make them a cup of tea, um, look them in the eye. And at the end of the day, AI doesn't do that. Computers don't do that. And so, um, without being too cheesy, my kids would say it's corny. Um, Yeah I'm heartened by the fact and excited about, um, people's interest in story and, the creative ways that so many talented people are bringing those stories to life. Like with furniture, I see. I, I've been in furniture for years and I see something

new

Dan Ryan: Hmm.

Matt Ferebee: I'm, I'm Marvel

that, that,

made

its way through

production. And I, I'm, I wanna know who designed it and like that, that sort of, um, electricity that you feel. That's what tells

me,

Dan Ryan: I,

Matt Ferebee: um, we're

not

Dan Ryan: I, wanna, [01:02:00]

Matt Ferebee: And

all, all is not lost.

Dan Ryan: I wanna thank you for reframing something. Like, I go to so many conferences, I listen to a lot of podcasts. I, you know, I'm always like, kind of absorbing, seeing what's going on with the intention of trying to have collisions with people. 'cause I think people excite me. That's where I get my energy from.

That's part of the reason why I do

this podcast. That's a huge reason why I

Matt Ferebee: and and you're good. You do.

a great job.

So

yeah. Good

energy.

Dan Ryan: Oh, thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you.

Stop, stop, stop. Just kidding. Um, so, uh, but you hear the, there's these buzz words that keep coming out, right? There's like, whatever, like crypto, blockchain, AI enabled, you know, you go to them, you hear there's always something, but storytelling.

Oh, we're storytellers. We're storytellers, we're storytellers.

And I, it's like overused. But what I want, what I want to thank you is it's not so much the [01:03:00] storytelling. Okay, fine. It's the power of story. It's getting to that idea of myth, right? And to me, story, it's, it's storytelling. Okay. That's like the what, the why is to distill down to that power of story.

And that's when

I think when the power of story is done well, that's when you have your decision circuit, your decision making, your, it becomes binary,

right? But you ha it's so hard,

just like it's hard to de define what someone's or an organization's values are. It takes a lot of work years and lots of revisions and it's never really quite right until it is.

Right. Right. And then that power of story is just, I think that's what we need to be focusing on, not the storytelling. It's like

I just a what?

Matt Ferebee: it's funny you say that. Uh, imagine just, not that it's a real word, but, um, I'll say it and we'll pretend that it is, um, storytelling [01:04:00] is a thing, and I think, so we've all been now confused by ways. Generative is such a, is such a strange word, but it's also like, I, I, I appreciate that it's not. It's not created, it's generated so generative. Um, and there's so much generative stuff around us, right? I can make things, I can do things seemingly right. But, um, storytelling is one of those many things that if I'm just

telling

it, it's monologue,

right?

Dan Ryan: Yeah.

Matt Ferebee: and not

the dialogue

is like

story

doing. Um,

Dan Ryan: Hmm

Matt Ferebee: like

imagine if

I,

if

I were to invent

some

way of trying to praise everything I learned watching Blackberry Farm over the last two decades, it would be that they do the story of a classic

American country

estate. They

do it

in

Dan Ryan: mm.

Matt Ferebee: in

the graciousness

that they extend to guests and the way that they take luggage to the room and the way that they pull your car around and make sure it's warm before you come and check out all of those things.

Not to mention the fact that [01:05:00] their cuisine and culinary team, um, is praised and acclaimed by everybody 'cause it's awesome. Um. But that they do the story. And I think that's something that people lose sight of the fact. And I think that's gonna be our one advantage, um, going forward, is that there'll be plenty of storytelling.

There'll be plenty of words, lots of, you know what I read the other day? It's slop, lots of work, slop where it smells and looks a little bit

like the

real thing, but it's not the real

thing.

Dan Ryan: Yeah.

Matt Ferebee: fake is the doing of the

story.

Dan Ryan: Yeah.

Matt Ferebee: and I think that's the

difference, is that,

um,

telling the story is one thing.

If you or charlatan or whatever, you can say it, A computer can probably figure out how to say it. Um, but

if you go

to a place like Blackberry,

walk, if you

Dan Ryan: the.

Matt Ferebee: through,

it's the.

human element. That's it. I

mean,

like when we talk about things like, um, crypto and blockchain, those things are not only, I mean, I, I would argue lose sight of the fact that, um, they're not human centered.

Okay. Maybe not. Um, but it's and it's not just that they're [01:06:00] unhuman, they

are

inhumane at times.

They, they dehumanize us.

Dan Ryan: Correct. But what I will say with blockchain, like crypto, like with blockchain, what's so amazing about the potential of it is that if done well, it could make so many things more frictionless, which would enable us to

focus more on the doing of the story, right? If, if the world is your stage to bring Shakespeare in there, right?

It's that when done well really in any kind of an experience, there's a playwright writing that and you get to live it. You get to do it

right. And um,

and the, as much as I love

and get energy off of people, it's all that other, even at a dinner, it's, Hey, do you want sparkling or still have you got your appetizer?

Like that's just frictiony stuff that's messing with my experience to the person sitting. Across from me.

Right.

And it's,

I'm not saying I want a blockchain, read my mind and [01:07:00] make the food appear on my table, but there's, there's things that are disrupt a genuine

and present connection.

Matt Ferebee: Yeah, I, the only thing I would say to that, I think, and I think that this is, this is the, um, conundrum of the next decade for, professionals in the world of hospitality, in the world of furniture. Think about it, um, in what, in what way does furniture need

to be

anything more than

ergonomic

Dan Ryan: Yeah.

Matt Ferebee: efficient

to produce? Right? Um, and so

then every other input we add

to it

is expressive

Dan Ryan: Hmm.

Matt Ferebee: to do something beyond

be furniture. right? Like that, that's, and that's the interest, right? So

as

humans, as evolved beings,

Dan Ryan: Yeah. there's

a performance to it.

Matt Ferebee: There, there's a performance or there's a gesture. It's a

Dan Ryan: Hmm.

Matt Ferebee: And so that I, I talk about gift a

lot

with people

is that when you think about, um, what you are doing for a guest, you're giving them a gift.

It may be a surprise, it may be a thoughtful gesture, but the gift is, um, if you've earned their attention and now they [01:08:00] feel the side of the chair and it's right at the back, it's been sanded, and they're like, huh, they, they finished the bottom rail of this back chair. Huh. That's interesting. That's a gift. That's somebody did that so that a human sitting there, um, wouldn't

encounter splintery

Dan Ryan: Hmm.

Matt Ferebee: Um, so I

think that

the

friction, I think is an

interesting point about crypto and its ability to streamline processes. I think the, um, the zealous, uh, pursuit of that to its fullest extent, most logical end, my brother sits in this camp,

is

everything should be frictionless.

Um, he, he would

prefer you might

sit down at the table, push the button, and they know if you

want

stiller sparkling, cause

you push the

Dan Ryan: Hmm.

Matt Ferebee: Um, and what I

would argue is that

there's a,

there's a, dance somewhere in between. How do you find those places where friction could be a place of value? What we talked about earlier where someone's like, I don't wanna bother somebody and call them before their visit. Um, but imagine what chances you've now eliminated to understand what [01:09:00] Dan and his wife, um, would like to drink when they arrive at the property, or what they would like to do on their first evening, or if they expect to be delayed. All of those things. And so I, I think in our, in our rush to remove the friction of human interaction, um, at times we have, um, taken away, like, I can't stand going to a restaurant and there's an iPad on the

table

or someone more,

Dan Ryan: The QR code.

Matt Ferebee: someone walks by and leaves me an

iPad,

Dan Ryan: Yeah,

Matt Ferebee: your iPad, sir. Order your

Dan Ryan: totally.

Matt Ferebee: And I'm like, man, I,

I could have just done that from the

Dan Ryan: Yeah.

Matt Ferebee: Like, why, why,

what, what

service did, did you provide walking over to me and handing me. A, an iPad. Like, it just, it's preposterous.

Dan Ryan: They probably looked at your shoes and then when you plugged in what you wanted, it saw that you had nicer shoes and that they charged you more for the same menu that the person

with the beat up shoes down the way had. it's

Matt Ferebee: it's surge. Surge

pricing.

Dan Ryan: yeah, exactly. Ugh.

Um, Matt, this has [01:10:00] been such an awesome conversation.

If, and thank you for your time and,

and like illuminate and helping me learn, but, and all of our listeners, but if people wanted to learn more about you or your company, what's a good way for them to get in touch?

Matt Ferebee: Fairview lane.com. Easiest way to, to find us and

and all

my friends here at, at Fairview

Lane.

Dan Ryan: Perfect. Well, and like I said,

thank you so much for your time and sharing your experience. I truly appreciate it.

Matt Ferebee: Yeah. I love it.

It was great, great conversation.

Dan Ryan: to all of our listeners, is it if this changed the way you think about branding or hospitality or being frictionless or. Um, the power of story or you think someone else can benefit from this, or if you've had a conversation, please forward this to them because we grow by word of mouth mostly.

And every share helps. So don't forget to like, comment, and share, and we'll catch you next time. Thank you.