Defining Hospitality

DH - Jon Buerge
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Jon Buerge: [00:00:00] and so recognizing exactly your point, recognizing the, the real impact, the holistic impact allows you to make decisions that are focused on.

You know, our mantra leaving the planet in a better place than we found it. If we were just focused on certifications, we would never look at those areas because the certifications haven't really, um, opened up those requirements and thought about the, um, embodied carbon footprint, the way that you're explaining it.

Intro: What I do is inconsequential. Why I do what I do is I get to shorten people's journeys every day. What I love about our hospitality industry is that it's our mission to make people feel cared for while on their journeys. Together we'll explore what hospitality means in the built environment, in business, and in our daily lives.

I'm Dan Ryan, and this is Defining Hospitality.

Sponsor: This podcast is sponsored by Berman Fall Hospitality Group, a design-driven furniture manufacturer who specializes in custom [00:01:00] case goods and seating for hotel guest rooms.

Dan Ryan: Today's guest is a professional with experience and hospitality, business administration, and law. His career has spanned retail, restaurants, and all many different facets of real estate. He's passionate about sustainability and was one of

and the respondent, other members of Denver's office.

He's currently the CEO at Urban Villages, ladies and gentlemen. John Bergey. Welcome, John.

Jon Buerge: Thank you. Pleasure to be here.

Dan Ryan: One of the things I love about doing this podcast is I get to speak to many entrepreneurs who are doing all different kinds of businesses, but specifically in hospitality. The ones that I'm most intrigued by are ones that are. Creating new

Maybe we find an

but through the lens or the, a major pillar, uh, with of sustainability. I've spoken to many past guests who.

Ask

Have sustainability [00:02:00] as a core pillar of their business. And many traditional

traditional

oh,

well, that's crazy. They can't do that.

Doesn't

Doesn't have while, but as the years go on

four

already.

Um, and just hearing

Here, hearing about what you

and how you, you're

found populous found

Villages, um, and from conferences that I hear Drops more

costs more money to the bottom line.

So we get into

We get into talking about why their

think that that doesn't make good business sense and why you're crusading against this, I wanna first understand what hospitality

hospitality means to you.

Peel back the onion on that.

Jon Buerge: Well, I think, uh, hospitality to me is the kind of unwavering and selfless pursuit of an extraordinary experience for a guest. And what I mean by that is, you know, as a hotelier, um, as, as somebody who's welcoming somebody into your building. [00:03:00] It ne the focus needs to be constantly at how can you make that experience as, um, as graceful, as easy, as opulent as possible for our guests.

And so there is a selflessness to hospitality that I think is just intoxicating. And I think is, is really when it's done well. It's kind of that, um, uncompromising pursuit of empathy. Um, for those that are coming in and, and staying at our hotels or eating at our restaurants or visiting our coffee shops.

Dan Ryan: Wonderful. And then I, I think what I appreciate so much about what you said there is all of these guests, I'm gonna take it a step further for you that are coming in to populace in particular. And seeing how you've created what I believe is the first carbon positive hotel. I wanna

Jon Buerge: That's correct.

Dan Ryan: What that is. But all these guests that come in, also become evangelists for what they've experienced in your hotel. So first of all, what does a carbon positive hotel mean to you, [00:04:00] and how have you seen guests that come in, stay with you and then they go on their way? How did they, what are some things that you've heard about how your hotel stays impact impacted how they live their lives?

Jon Buerge: That's great set of questions. You know, you mentioned carbon positive and that was a term that we somewhat backed into. You know, we started the development process of populace with a very simple idea and a simple kind of mantra. You know, we looked at ourselves and said, we want to develop and operate a hotel that truly and authentically leaves the planet in a better place than we found it.

You know, that was the, the very simple lens that we started to look at this project through. Um, when we started to dig in to understand, you know, the environmental impact of every element of our hotel, uh, where's the materials coming from? How were the materials made? Um, you know, how are [00:05:00] we constructing it?

Um, how are we sourcing, um, our products? Um, what kind of companies are we sourcing them from? We realized that that simple mantra of leaving the planet in a better place than we found it. Was very complex. Um, and as we ultimately looked at different ways of evaluating our impact on the environment, um, we kept falling back to carbon.

Um, you know, climate change. Uh, is is a very complex process, but it really essentially comes down to too much carbon in the atmosphere. And when we burn fossil fuels and we do other things, we emit carbon. And that carbon creates ancillary blanket over the planet and, and creates weather changes. Um, and so the impact on climate change can be tracked down to carbon and most things, whether it's products or processes or materials, can.

Can be calculated. A car, you can calculate a carbon footprint. Um, you can also, um, [00:06:00] calculate offsets with carbon. When you plant a tree or you instigate, uh, regenerative agriculture, those living things take carbon outta the atmosphere and store them in the soil, and so you can track the offsetting through carbon.

And so ultimately we realized that carbon was the one metric. That was relatively consistent between all impacts that we make at the hotel level. Um, and so when we went back to our original idea of saying we wanna leave the planet in a better place than we found it, we, we realized that we were able to not only track our carbon footprint on all variety of areas, but we were able to evaluate.

Better alternatives. Um, try to reduce that carbon footprint as much as possible. And then at the end of the day, um, we needed to invest back in nature to, um, pull and remove as much carbon as we could to offset the ultimate carbon footprint that we had created. You know, it's impossible to build [00:07:00] anything, certainly a hotel without emitting carbon.

And so the nature of being carbon positive requires ongoing investment in carbon sequestration. So we're emitting carbon and we're sequestering carbon. We're trying to balance that budget in a positive way. And so a lot of our initial effort was in reduction of carbon. Um, and we, we literally brought in our general contractor, all of our subcontractors, our design teams, everybody that was involved in making populous.

As a building, um, and brought them in on this mission. And so in many situations, we would go to our team and say, um, okay, this is the original set of mechanical equipment. This is the original set of materials. This is how we're gonna build a building. Now go out and see if we can find, um, different means and methods, different products that have a lower carbon footprint, and let's evaluate those options.

That process led to a meaningful reduction in our carbon footprint [00:08:00] in total, more than a 50% reduction from our original estimates of our carbon footprint. Um, and those, those ideas and those products came from pretty unexpected sources. Um, for example, our general contractor and our, and our cement, uh, subcontractor, um.

You know, did a deep dive and they found a alternative concrete material for our structure, um, that utilizes fly ash, um, instead of lime as a bonding agent. You know, a lot of people don't realize it, but concrete is, you know, arguably one of the most environmentally damaging products, uh, human beings have ever created.

And so, um, you have to build building in many situations out of concrete. Um, and so asking the experts. Are, is all concrete made the same? Are there, you know, more renewable, more sustainable materials that we could utilize? And ultimately they came back to us with a wild idea and they said, they basically said, we've got a product that utilizes fly ash that could reduce our carbon footprint by over 30%.[00:09:00]

Um, and it's never been used before in a commercial building. And so we were intrigued and we. Dove in deep with our, with our team, and evaluated that product, evaluated its structural durability, evaluated its cure time, and then ultimately worked with the city of Denver.

Dan Ryan: I'm, just so I'm clear on the, um, on the concrete that you wound up using with the fly ash. Is that the main component of the facade of your building, which is actually quite striking, and we will drop that into the YouTube version if you are watching this.

Jon Buerge: Um, so the facade, the, the, the, the white kind of columns that come down the building, um, are, you know, they're really inspired by a grove of aspen trees. And so the material that we utilize for that is actually glass fiber reinforced concrete. So it is a concrete material, but it's not the material that we utilize fly ash for the core of the building.

So the main structural, um, element of the building where. You know, the sort of spine of the entire building was built out of traditional structural [00:10:00] concrete, and that's what we were able to replace with this fly ash alternative.

Dan Ryan: okay. 'cause that the facade is visually striking and something that a guest would actually interact with. But for much of the concrete pour and many of the sustainable efforts that are used in construction, they're not seen. Or felt or touched by the guests. So what are some ways that you've taken the populace in particular and some of those environmental

Those

measures to kind of be more resonant emotionally for the travelers and it changes their. Perspective or how they think about things or how they're actually choosing stay. Like I know a lot of group travelers

travelers from Univers

wanna stay

business

that has sustainable

sustainable,

how do you

I.

All those together?

Jon Buerge: You know, you're touching on something that I think is an absolutely critical pillar of what we're creating with the Populous Hotel company. [00:11:00] We're not building the most sustainable hotel brand on earth, um, as purely an impact strategy. Um, it is also a very real and compelling investment. Plan. Um, and, uh, the key is how do you take environmental initiatives and showcase them and bring them into the guest experience in such a way that they share in the value that we've created.

You know, we, we kind of joked about how a lot of times in real estate, when you think about ways to make a building more sustainable, um, most of those efforts are in, you know, theary, the ancillary aspects of the facade building, you know. Very highly insulated glass or, um, or in the mechanical systems, you know, putting solar panels on the roof, um, you know, installing highly efficient mechanical equipment.

But the reality is, if you think about a hotel stay, if you, um, are staying in a hotel that heats its [00:12:00] water through. You know, highly efficient boilers and you know, has solar panels all over the roof. That shower is going to feel the same as a shower that has been heated by, uh, you know, an old inefficient natural gas burning boiler.

And so as a guest, it's hard to, um, share the value of sustainability with them when it's all hidden from them. And so a huge part of what populace is about is about bringing the environmental initiatives those. Very deep, um, ideas around leaving the planet in a better place than we found it and delivering it to the guests in a way in which they feel like they're participating in it.

And it's creating added value in their stay. And so your point around the fact that, um, that a lot of, there's a lot of theatrics in our building. It's very deep and authentic, but the way you walk, the, the way you arrive at the hotel, the architecture, um, the interior design, all of it is done in such a way.

That's fun and whimsical and [00:13:00] enriching. And so the guests actually share in the sustainability mission. They don't feel like it's kind of hidden away. They feel like they're participating in it. And I think that's a really important part about how hoteliers, um, sometimes miss the ball. If you think about some of the leading environmental initiatives in the hotel industry, it's like, you know, energy efficiency measures.

It's, um, you know, don't wash your towel, you know, if you, if you don't use it. It's things that. Don't really make the guest experience better. And what we've tried to do with populace is make, um, that overall experience a better experience for our guests where they feel like they're a participant in that whole process.

Dan Ryan: Okay. And if you think about when, when this started as an idea, populace in Denver, you obviously build out your

Um.

Right? You have, you have a target, you have a budget. You're anticipating x return for your

An expert return

Um.

For

How [00:14:00] have your sustainability initiatives surprised you and increased your net operating income and increase the value of the building?

Because I think that's what a lot of traditional developers are missing that I. Especially in this age of inflation and electricity and just

and be that

fuel and everything it takes to operate a

hotel I think that many developers who really,

set out with the intention of sustainability surprise their investors.

once everything is operating and normalized

Jon Buerge: well, one One of the easiest things to calculate is energy savings. Cost savings. When you, Create a building that, utilizes energy in a more efficient way, your operating costs are reduced. Um, and that's, you know, very clear that that's there. It's been true for a while and I think that a lot of, investors are starting to understand that those investments in efficient energy [00:15:00] systems pay back over time and, create more sustained value in the real estate.

With populace, I think it's a little bit different because, you know. What we really focus on is market demand. Where is the consumer? You know, there's a lot of data out there, but a 2024 study by McKinsey, indicated that 43%. of US consumers would be willing to pay a premium for a green product or experience.

Um, bookings.com. One of the, large, hotel booking engines, you know, they do a variety of different market studies and last year they released a study that said that 83% of travelers are seeking more sustainable accommodations. So we know that there's demand for green hospitality, and we also know that the industry as a whole has been very slow to react.

And not really, um, have, has not really responded in any sort of a exciting way. And so there's this pent up demand for something new. And there's not a lot of, [00:16:00] uh, product in the market. There's not a lot of people, um, creating more sustainable accommodations. And so. As a starting point, we know that there's untapped demand, there's un um, uh, unmet demand out there.

And so a big part of this is creating a product that customers are looking for. I think the other thing that's important for us, and, and one of the reasons why populace is such a strong economic model is that that eco-conscious consumer. More and more is making, are making decisions based out of trust.

And you see this with a lot of brands. Um, you know, Patagonia being a great example where Patagonia has invested in building brand trust with their customers. And once they establish that brand trust, those customers come back. They're very, very, um, resilient and they're very loyal. And for us, you know, our, our goal has been to do every, everything we possibly can do to build and operate the most sustainable hotel in America.

Um, [00:17:00] and we also tell that story in a whole variety of different ways so that the guests understand it and we try to be, um, consistent and authentic and build a trusted relationship with cust, with our customers. And that creates repeat business. That creates loyalty. And we're even seeing it, you know, in, in hospitality, you know, there's the, there's something called the net promoter score where you're, you're asking your own guests are, would you recommend this to friends and family?

And we're already exceeding market standards in NPS scores because our customers believe in what we're creating and there's a personal connection to it. And so they're often, um, our biggest advocates, you know, when we read our reviews, they're not just saying. I had a great night of sleep and my bed was really comfortable and it was quiet.

You know, they're saying, oh my gosh, this hotel is doing extraordinary things. And I just felt so empowered being a part of it, and I want the whole world to know about populace. Like that's the kind of emphatic. Um, feedback that we're getting from our customers, [00:18:00] and I think that in, in, for most hoteliers will see and realize that there's economic value in that.

When you build that kind of relationship with the guests, with the customer, um, that is a investment in the future. That's an investment in your, um, in your returns for your hotel because you're building that trusted relationship.

Sponsor: Hey, everybody. We've been doing this podcast for over three years now, and one of the themes that consistently comes up is sustainability, and I'm just really proud to announce that our sponsor, Berman Fall Hospitality Group is the first within our hospitality industry to switch to sustainable and recyclable packaging, eliminating the use of styrofoam.

Please check out their impact page in the show notes for more info.

Dan Ryan: Hey John, you served on Denver's Office of Climate Action. If were to give you a magic wand to fix one policy obstacle in sustainable development, what would it be?

Jon Buerge: Buildings are all so uniquely different, [00:19:00] and I think like a lot of policies, um, we try to, and a lot of cities try to create a uniform policy, a uniform way of addressing. Energy consumption or water consumption. And I think that, uh, the, the mistake, um, that I, I wish we had a better answer to was to create more flexibility.

Because there's a lot of times that, you know, we may have an old historic building or something that doesn't really fit within a certain standard, um, or different conditions. Right now, one of the issues we're facing is we have a lot of, um, you know, uh, empty. Turn 1800 or 1980s office buildings that are sitting empty and that are often owned by a bank.

And so if you follow those policies, you know, are we supposed to be, you know, refurbishing and adding new mechanical equipments and doing all these things to these buildings that are kind of. Um, no longer really useful in their current form. And so I think that the key is for, um, for [00:20:00] municipalities and for, um, you know, all sorts of policy makers to understand that buildings are very, very diverse.

And, you know, the mechanical systems, the way that they function are, um, are all over the place as far as what they are. And you really can't solve this with uniform policies. There has to be flexibility and there has to be nuance to how they get applied.

Dan Ryan: Looking at hotel like you've been involved in many different aspects of commercial real estate. my bias and opinion, and I could be wrong here, but I seem to think and believe that hotels spend more on CapEx from maintenance renovations, just keeping the thing going to almost every other vertical of commercial real estate. What do you think is holding back. Developers from implementing more sustainable efforts in their mechanical elec, electrical plumbing systems. J and just the overall operations of hotel [00:21:00] of a hotel. Given the fact that they spend more on CapEx, like why aren't hoteliers converting to more sustainable measures faster?

What's the, there also seem to be a laggard, um, in the industry as well, in in the real estate verticals as well.

Jon Buerge: Well, I mean, I think, uh, one thing to remember when we're doing, when we're talking about any kind of upgrades to an existing building. Um, it's important to create energy efficiency. It's important to replace, um, you know, less efficient equipment with modern e uh, modern and efficient equipment. It's also important to electrify buildings because, um, you know, the electric grid can be greened up, it can be fueled through renewable.

And so by utilizing electricity versus natural gas. Um, ultimately it's a path to a more sustainable future, but I think we also have to remember that there's a carbon footprint to every, um, piece of mechanical equipment. And so it's not necessarily better for the planet to go in and tear [00:22:00] out an existing, um, natural gas boiler that still has another.

15 years of useful life, it's better to use those systems until they need to be replaced and then when they do need to be replaced, replaced with more efficient systems. So I think that, um, you're absolutely right. In hotels, there's by far the highest CapEx, there's the most usage. There's so many more people utilize a hotel than an office building or an apartment building.

Um, but this equipment still does, has a, have a useful life. And so, um, I think it's important for all hoteliers, anybody that owns a hotel to understand that yes, you should replace and upgrade systems and make them more efficient. Do them at the right time. I think the other element is that a lot of the new, um, equipment is, is new.

It hasn't necessarily had decades of, um, of, of usage. So a lot of people aren't familiar with them. Uh, and so when, when you're exploring more energy efficient, more environmentally friendly equipment and. Various replacements. [00:23:00] Sometimes you have to take extra risk because you're trying things that haven't been used before.

Um, you know, before we were talking about concrete, like we were the very first commercial building to use this particular type of concrete that inherently came with risk. Um, and so it's really important that, um, companies like populace and others are out there testing this equipment, testing these materials, showing that they can be, um, successful.

Because then other hoteliers can look at that and say, okay, well it we're there. I feel more comfortable with it now.

Dan Ryan: Um, aerium is your management company and partner. They,

how many hotels do they manage in the Denver area? Around populace? Approximately.

Jon Buerge: only one. So that's an easy answer for us. They only, they have about 12 hotels nationally and only one here in Denver.

Dan Ryan: I'm curious because one of the driving factors that I'm seeing where sustainable efforts really pay off in revenue and guests and outreach is in group sales. [00:24:00] Um,

Jon Buerge: Yes.

Dan Ryan: They have any bench? Can they benchmark your group sales as it pertains to your sustainable initiatives, um, to how it might outperform other properties that they have in other areas of the country?

Jon Buerge: Yeah, absolutely. And I think the, the area that we're seeing the biggest benefit is the fact that we do stand out in a crowd. You know, populist Denver is, um, is only two blocks away from the convention center. Um, popula Seattle is right across the street from all the stadiums in the stadium district, and so there's a lot of group business opportunity and a lot of times when these groups are out in the market, they're comparing, um, various hotels.

You know, basically based on price, um, proximity, uh, banquet space, et cetera, like, it's a very, um, algorithmic process. And when you're competing in that environment, you're competing on price, you're competing on, um, on, on things that, um, aren't necessarily creating [00:25:00] added value. But with populace, we are competing in a different way because there's only one of us.

We can't really, um, compete with the big convention hotels and the big brands, and they can't compete with us. And so we don't try to compete in the groups that aren't going to value what we bring. But when a big group, when a convention, when a company is coming into town and they do have, um, environmental goals, um, a lot of companies, a lot of organizations, you know, have climate pledges or ESG mandates.

When it's that kind of an organization and we can appeal to those motivations and those shared ethoses, we stand out and we are truly one of one. And it creates a, um, a different competitive environment for us. And so what we're really learning, I mean, we're brand new. We only opened populist Denver a year ago.

But what we're really starting to understand is that, um, we're not competing for the whole pie. We are competing for a small piece of that pie with very little competitive competitors in that, in that [00:26:00] area. And so we're trying to own that and really kind of, uh, focus our marketing and focusing our, our value proposition on guests that truly are aligned with what we're providing.

Dan Ryan: So I heard anecdotal stories in the past of how hotels who take on sustainable invest in sustainable initiatives and then can. Fill out the appropriate documentation with the OTAs, with, uh, with the bigger brands and they get some kind of a badge or some kind of demarcation, whether it's lead, um, or indoor air quality or you name it.

I mean, there's like a whole alphabet soup of, of. Badges you can get on that web, on that webpage

Jon Buerge: Yep.

Dan Ryan: But I've heard anecdotal evidence in the past that universities, companies, um, sustainable initiatives are very important to them. So if they have offsite meetings, if they have, uh, guests coming into town, [00:27:00] alumni events. The university or that company

The,

steer their groups to these types of hotels, and I just didn't know if you have seen

I just didn't know if you.

At all. Because at the lodging conference in Denver two weeks ago, I, it moved from anecdotal to actual real data showing that it was helping many different hotels with sustainable initiatives outperform in the group bookings area.

Jon Buerge: I think that, um, we're starting to build closer relationships. Um, we've got some great universities nearby, um, both of our hotels, and so we're exploring closer relationships with them. You know, a lot of what we're seeing is, um. In the green economy, it's, there's a lot of things emerging and there's a lot of noise.

And you mentioned, you know, all the variety of, of different types of certifications. Um, some of them are really great and some of them are, you know, very thin and, um, and so a lot of times, whether it's a university or um, [00:28:00] or the municipality, the city. Um, knowing what initiatives are, um, they're pushing, like lead certification for example.

Um, you know, we are lead certified, but at the same time, um, we're so much beyond lead. And so, um, there are a lot of hotels that can achieve a lead certification. There aren't really all that environmentally progressive. And so what we're trying to do is, um, build closer relationships. So those partners.

Really understand the holistic nature of it and then can really see what we are compared to the competition. Um, but there's a lot of opportunities there and that's one of our thoughts as we continue to look at growing and expanding and opening new populous hotels and new markets. We think that those strategic alignments where these organizations, like universities that do share our ethos, that do really care about these things.

Deeply understand what we've done, have buy-in on it, and then can be great. Um, you know, uh, partners for us in, in, [00:29:00] you know, connecting us to customers and telling our story.

Dan Ryan: Um, an interesting article I read a couple years ago through Metropolis Magazine showed that even if you had a lead platinum building that was new, build from ground up the rent, and it lasted a hundred years, the interior renovations over the hundred years of that building, if you did it every 10 years, has a larger carbon impact and environmental. The actual building of the building, does that surprise you?

Jon Buerge: Not at all. You know, there's uh, a stat I read, uh, a little while back that said over 50% of the material of the mass in our landfills today come from construction waste. And, you know, a big, big percentage of that is from renovations. Um, you know, we see it a lot in office space. You have a new office tenant that comes in and, and wants to gut the entire space, rebuild it all.

They stay there for five years and when they leave, the next tenant wants to gut the space and rebuild it all. [00:30:00] Um, you know, when we started looking at. The impact, the environmental impact of populace. Um, obviously a big part of it is what's called operational carbon. It's the, you know, the energy we use when we turn on the lights.

Um, it's the food we source that we serve in our restaurants. That operational carbon footprint's important. But what a lot of these like certifications, you know, lead, et cetera, they don't really look at what's called the embodied carbon footprint. It's the carbon footprint of all the stuff. Of the materials of the construction.

And what you're pointing out is when you are, um, regularly renovating and changing things, you know what materials you're picking, how durable are they? Um, what's the end of life look like when you have to throw it away? That's a critical part of the overall footprint. Uh, the environmental footprint of what we do in hotels and, you know, that's an important thing.

Like we, we were looking at different carpet samples and carpet materials for populace [00:31:00] and, you know, there was a lot of really great, amazing products. Um, but then we start asking questions about, well, what happens when we tear that out? Like that carpet may last five or six years and we're gonna have to remove it.

And what we realized is there's very few carpet out there that can be composted. And so ultimately that led us to a, a carpet product that. Is all built out of na natural fibers, and when we do remove it, it will be composted, it'll be turned back into soil and will sequester carbon into the earth. Um, and so recognizing exactly your point, recognizing the, the real impact, the holistic impact allows you to make decisions that are focused on.

You know, our mantra leaving the planet in a better place than we found it. If we were just focused on certifications, we would never look at those areas because the certifications haven't really, um, opened up those requirements and thought about the, um, embodied carbon footprint, the way that you're explaining it.

Dan Ryan: I think from, I'm a lead accredited professional.

Jon Buerge: Yeah.

Dan Ryan: [00:32:00] Our supply chains back in 2008 when I did that, but I found that it never really affected the FFF and e, which is what I focus on and I'm an expert in. and that was a little disheartening. There's, there's a, I'm a raving fan of this one organization and a company called Mind Click, where they do consider the embodied carbon. From Cradle to Cradle on any new construction and any renovation for FFF and E and to me, that's just a dream come true. And I wish more people would use it and roll it out because it just creates a measurement in all different areas. And then if you measure something. see where you can improve.

Like we changed how we package everything. We don't use any more hard polystyrene foam. And that was like step one after joining this platform. And now we're looking at a whole bunch of other initiatives, but we wouldn't have known what those initiatives were the measurement. Um, what are some surprising. [00:33:00] New ways to find capital or attract capital. Um, on the, I guess on the equity side or the debt side, as you look to expand the populous brand into other markets, are, is there a different pool of equity or debt that might wanna help you develop your new, your new projects as you look to expand? And what are your expansion plans?

Jon Buerge: You know, we don't look at our capital needs as, um, as the main objective. We look at finding aligned partners as our main objective. So when we're out talking to potential investors, um. You know, we're not thinking about them as just, we're trying to sell you on an investment. We're trying to re, you know, get you to invest in us.

We're actually looking for partners that, um, that add value, that believe in what we bel and what we believe in and are, are bought into this. Um, but. We never expect or project that we're going to, um, compromise our investment returns. You know, I've heard a lot of different executives [00:34:00] talk about the importance of, um, understanding and embracing sustainability.

And I would go so far as to say in most industries, certainly in hotels. Um, it's almost irresponsible to not be obsessed with the changing marketplace. Um, and the changes are happening fast. When you look at the changes in consumer demand for green products and experiences and how quickly that is growing, I mean, it is, uh, it is right here.

It's, it's present today and every indication is that's going to get stronger. And, you know, we think about the fact that, um. Climate change, ecological degradation, you know, those things are affecting us personally, all of us personally, in, in different ways that weren't there in the past. You know, I have three young kids here in Colorado and you know, 10 years ago I never even really thought about air quality.

Because of the massive increase in forest fires and, and, and the air quality challenges that we're now facing in [00:35:00] Colorado. Before I go for a hike with my family, I check the weather and I check the air quality. Um, and so climate change, these things are affecting us personally. It's no longer about. You know, protecting endangered species at the poles like it, that's important, but it's not personal to, to many people now, you know, whether it is massive hurricanes, um, you know, uh, ocean rising forest fires, all sorts of things are affecting us personally.

And so as it affects us personally, we're going to, and we already as consumers are making decisions. Um, focus on the impact of those decisions. We're making choices about where we're spending money, um, with a lens to how is it affecting the planet. And so, you know, and, and you look at where the, the biggest increase in, um, demand for green products and experience is coming from the younger generation.

That younger generation is gonna be the primary driver of our economy. So if any of your listeners are thinking about building a [00:36:00] new hotel, um, or thinking about a major renovation, um. Think to the future and the future's here today. I mean, the demand is so real. And so to not be obsessed with how can we be better?

Um, and how can we tell that story to our customers and build a trusted relationship with our customers around it? I think it's a responsible. Um, and so you, your question was sort of around, um, the types of investors. Um, 10, 15 years ago, there was a very niche. Um, type of investor that we would be working with today, that aperture is wide open.

Because it's not just family offices and high net worth individuals anymore, it's now institutional investors because they look at the demand curves. They understand where the demand drivers are going, where are they today, but where will they be in five or 10 years? And so now they're starting to realize that these kind of this way of thinking and this kind of way of doing business is actually getting in front of an [00:37:00] inevitable change that's hitting our market.

Dan Ryan: I agree, and that's why I am surprised this sustainable hospitality hasn't taken off more, and part of me thinks it's because it hasn't lowered the cost of capital or attracted new, um. Sources of equity. I think that is happening. I'm seeing it happen. But the other thing that surprises me is by install, by investing in sustainable energy use and um, just being more efficient. It does. Lower your

It

does

and increase the

what?

Of the hotel. So to me, I don't, it almost seems like a red herring why people are not pushing more into this. Um, I know that there's different sources of debt financing. Um, I know that there's specific institutional investors and also family office that only want to invest or more heavily invest in these types of initiatives. So to me, like all those [00:38:00] reasons why people are not their hotels. building new hotels with a sustaina through a sustainability lens. It's just really surprising to me. It just seems like they keep moving the goalposts, but all the reasons to do it are there now.

Jon Buerge: Absolutely, and I would chalk it up to people are habitual. Organizations are habitual. It's very hard to change how we've always done it. And you know, the hospitality industry is a niche. And you know, people stay in that industry for their whole careers. And if they've been developing hotels and developing brands and operating hotels in a certain way for the last 30, 40 years, um, these changes are happening really fast and it's hard for organizations to adjust.

And I think that's why you're seeing a lag. In, um, and especially the big established brands really leaning into these market changes because they're happening so quickly and it's hard to keep up.

Dan Ryan: So with that kind of [00:39:00] launchpad in mind of like that you, of what you just described, and you do see the hearts and minds changing and you see the younger generations wanting this. As you look to the future beyond Denver and Seattle,

Denver,

what's exciting you most about the future?

Jon Buerge: There's no bigger catalyst to change than the business world. Um, you know, it's easy to hope and expect government to save us from climate change and ecological degradation and mass species extinction. But the biggest, um, tool we have is business. And I think the, the thing that I, um, that gives me hope.

You know, it's very easy to lose hope when for 50 years we've been talking about climate change and you know, virtually seen no change in the way that we live on planet Earth. But [00:40:00] consumer demand, consumer behavior is the biggest hammer, and as more of us as consumers start to. Ask questions, what is the environmental impact of this decision?

Is there a more environmentally friendly product available? Is there a more environmentally friendly experience or hotel available? The more consumers start to ask that question and seek those answers, the, um, the economy will respond. Um, ultimately businesses, uh, in business to meet customer demand. And when customer demand shifts as it's doing right in front of our noses right now.

As more of us are demanding better from the products and the things that we buy, that's going to implement massive changes in, um, in the way that we live on planet Earth. And so I think I, when I get discouraged about all the decades of inaction. Um, I try to focus on what's changing and that change being very real and very deep [00:41:00] and very authentic.

And I think that if companies don't respond to those changes in demand, they'll get left behind. I think that's just the reality of business. And so, you know, when I said earlier that a, if a CEO of a company is not, you know, nearly obsessed with how sustainability is affecting their industry, that, um, you know, they'll be left behind.

And I think that is something that makes me very, very optimistic about the future.

Dan Ryan: totally agree, and I say this often in this podcast, but I don't know who said this originally or where it's attributed to, but I've ripped off and duplicated it many times that a waterfall starts with just one drop of water, and it's really important that. You as a pioneer in sustainable hospitality just needs to have this continued success and keep impacting these guests. And it's so exciting to see and there are other champions like yourself that are out

Jon Buerge: Like yourself.

Dan Ryan: You guys can get together and get your heads together, I think the better that we'll all be. As an industry, as a country, as a planet. [00:42:00] Um, so I thank you for that. If people wanted to learn more about, uh, populace and you, um, what's a good way for them to get in touch and, and also, uh, yeah, just let us know like how people can get in touch with you.

Jon Buerge: Yeah, I mean, the best way is through our website, uh, www.urbanvillages.com. We're based in Denver. We have offices in Seattle and Pittsburgh. Um, you know, we're also very active on social media. Um, we have our populous, uh, hotel websites, populous Denver and populous seattle.com. Um, there's a lot of the story about populace at the websites themselves.

But you know, we tell our story in a whole variety of different formats, and if anybody's interested in learning more about us, um, contacting us, um, please, uh, encourage all your listeners to reach out to us through our website. All of our contact information is available there.

Dan Ryan: Will do for sure. Um, thank you so much for sharing your story and your experience. Um, I appreciate it. I know our listeners do as well. Um, thank you so much, John.

Jon Buerge: Absolutely. [00:43:00] Dan, it's been a pleasure. I.

Dan Ryan: Thank you to all the listeners because without you, we wouldn't continue to have

Jon Buerge: About.

Dan Ryan: Enlightening conversations and learn about how business can change the environment. And it's really important, um, for all of us to consider this. 'cause I agree with John. The government's not gonna save us.

We're gonna save us. And. Businesses and entrepreneurs are the best way to get these to market and to impact all of us individuals. So if this has changed your mind about how to be a different entrepreneur, please pass it to someone else that you think could benefit from it, and we'll catch you next time.

Thank you.